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	<title>Comments on: Starting a Company</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/</link>
	<description>The World through the eyes of a scientist</description>
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		<title>By: Danny Yee</title>
		<link>http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/comment-page-1/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Yee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/#comment-58</guid>
		<description>A useful summary, thanks!

I thought about going through this, but decided getting an ABN as a simple sole-trader was a lot easier.  There are still a few reasons a holding company would make sense - estate planning would be simpler, among other things - so I may reconsider that at some point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A useful summary, thanks!</p>
<p>I thought about going through this, but decided getting an ABN as a simple sole-trader was a lot easier.  There are still a few reasons a holding company would make sense &#8211; estate planning would be simpler, among other things &#8211; so I may reconsider that at some point.</p>
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		<title>By: Chandana</title>
		<link>http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/comment-page-1/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Chandana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 09:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/#comment-32</guid>
		<description>Hi Haydn,

Many thanks for your comments. I have read the philosophy behind your AEReS project and it is absolutely fascinating! I will use this forum to communicate with future issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Haydn,</p>
<p>Many thanks for your comments. I have read the philosophy behind your AEReS project and it is absolutely fascinating! I will use this forum to communicate with future issues.</p>
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		<title>By: FastLife</title>
		<link>http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/comment-page-1/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>FastLife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 01:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/#comment-31</guid>
		<description>Hi Chandana,

The shares in a company that each member owns is  a measure of the proportion of a company that  each member owns.  If, for example, you each paid $50 for your share of the company when registering, you now all own an equal share in the company and the company has $150 from the sale of these shares.  If the company then received $30,000, regardless of the source, you would now all have an equal share in a company which now has $30,150 in cash and/or assets.  It doesn&#039;t matter where that money came from, even if only one of you put in all that money, you would still all hold an equal share, since you all have the same number of shares in the company.

So from the point of view of ownership of the company it doesn&#039;t really matter if you buy your initial share of the company with your $10,000 each, or add it later.  Probably the most important thing would be to document everything.  Always remember that a company is a independent entity.  If you give it $10,000, that is now the company&#039;s $10,000 and you can&#039;t just take it back again later.  You can of course arrange to loan your company $10,000 with zero interest if you like, in which case you can later receive the money back.  You just need to enter into a contract with your company to do this.  This is worth noting, particularly if you think you will be topping up company cash reserves from your own private money in the future.  It is the in the company&#039;s best interest to have it documented exactly what are the obligations of the company when receiving money from private individuals.  If, on the other hand you were only putting in this initial amount and no more, it would probably be easiest to simply buy your initial shares of the company with your $10,000 each.  You can make the shares worth however much you want, ie 100 shares of $100 each or 1000 share of $10 each etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chandana,</p>
<p>The shares in a company that each member owns is  a measure of the proportion of a company that  each member owns.  If, for example, you each paid $50 for your share of the company when registering, you now all own an equal share in the company and the company has $150 from the sale of these shares.  If the company then received $30,000, regardless of the source, you would now all have an equal share in a company which now has $30,150 in cash and/or assets.  It doesn&#8217;t matter where that money came from, even if only one of you put in all that money, you would still all hold an equal share, since you all have the same number of shares in the company.</p>
<p>So from the point of view of ownership of the company it doesn&#8217;t really matter if you buy your initial share of the company with your $10,000 each, or add it later.  Probably the most important thing would be to document everything.  Always remember that a company is a independent entity.  If you give it $10,000, that is now the company&#8217;s $10,000 and you can&#8217;t just take it back again later.  You can of course arrange to loan your company $10,000 with zero interest if you like, in which case you can later receive the money back.  You just need to enter into a contract with your company to do this.  This is worth noting, particularly if you think you will be topping up company cash reserves from your own private money in the future.  It is the in the company&#8217;s best interest to have it documented exactly what are the obligations of the company when receiving money from private individuals.  If, on the other hand you were only putting in this initial amount and no more, it would probably be easiest to simply buy your initial shares of the company with your $10,000 each.  You can make the shares worth however much you want, ie 100 shares of $100 each or 1000 share of $10 each etc.</p>
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		<title>By: FastLife</title>
		<link>http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/comment-page-1/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>FastLife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 00:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Hi Wally.  There is a benefit in lodging your ASIC 201 form (registering a company) before applying for your ABN from what I understand.  The first is that an ABN is an identification number given to an entity capable of running a business, and is used to identify the entity to the Tax department primarily, and other government agencies that need to know who you are.  That entity can be a person, or a company.

If you register your company first, it will actually be your company, not you, applying for your ABN.  In this case the Australian Business Register will use your Australian Comany Number (ACN) to form your ABN.  You can thus use just your ABN on all your documentation rather than having to use both numbers, since your ACN will form a part of your ABN.

An explanation as to the difference between the ACN and the ABN can be found at:

http://help.abr.gov.au/content.asp?doc=/Content/17869.htm&amp;placement=ABH/FAQ&amp;usertype=BC

I hope this helps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Wally.  There is a benefit in lodging your ASIC 201 form (registering a company) before applying for your ABN from what I understand.  The first is that an ABN is an identification number given to an entity capable of running a business, and is used to identify the entity to the Tax department primarily, and other government agencies that need to know who you are.  That entity can be a person, or a company.</p>
<p>If you register your company first, it will actually be your company, not you, applying for your ABN.  In this case the Australian Business Register will use your Australian Comany Number (ACN) to form your ABN.  You can thus use just your ABN on all your documentation rather than having to use both numbers, since your ACN will form a part of your ABN.</p>
<p>An explanation as to the difference between the ACN and the ABN can be found at:</p>
<p><a href="http://help.abr.gov.au/content.asp?doc=/Content/17869.htm&#038;placement=ABH/FAQ&#038;usertype=BC" rel="nofollow">http://help.abr.gov.au/content.asp?doc=/Content/17869.htm&#038;placement=ABH/FAQ&#038;usertype=BC</a></p>
<p>I hope this helps.</p>
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		<title>By: Chandana</title>
		<link>http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/comment-page-1/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Chandana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/#comment-28</guid>
		<description>A very good introduction to fill out the table showing Individual Shares for a new comer like me! I  really appreciate if you could answer my question. Three of us are planning to register a company. Just like in youe example i.e. $0.10/share x 1000 shares=$100, do we need to work out this total share cost in terms of how much each of us putting into the business? In other words, say each one of us putting $10,000 so the total would be $30,000. So do we need to show up shares to reflect the total of $30000 (i.e. if one share is $0.10, then do we need to quote &#039;300,000&#039; shares to account for the total of $30,000 OR simply use some numbers as in your example. This means if all three of us taking up equal shares with a total of 1500 shares (500 shares per member), and with each share worth $0.10, each member will pay $50 for his share!

Appreciate your answer.

Thanks &amp; regards
Chandana</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very good introduction to fill out the table showing Individual Shares for a new comer like me! I  really appreciate if you could answer my question. Three of us are planning to register a company. Just like in youe example i.e. $0.10/share x 1000 shares=$100, do we need to work out this total share cost in terms of how much each of us putting into the business? In other words, say each one of us putting $10,000 so the total would be $30,000. So do we need to show up shares to reflect the total of $30000 (i.e. if one share is $0.10, then do we need to quote &#8216;300,000&#8242; shares to account for the total of $30,000 OR simply use some numbers as in your example. This means if all three of us taking up equal shares with a total of 1500 shares (500 shares per member), and with each share worth $0.10, each member will pay $50 for his share!</p>
<p>Appreciate your answer.</p>
<p>Thanks &amp; regards<br />
Chandana</p>
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		<title>By: Wally</title>
		<link>http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/comment-page-1/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Wally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:36:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Hello, great useful information! I am also in the process of starting my own thing. I was wondering if there are any benefits registering for an ABN first or ASIC&#039;s 201 form.

*I am aware your advice is of a non-professional nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, great useful information! I am also in the process of starting my own thing. I was wondering if there are any benefits registering for an ABN first or ASIC&#8217;s 201 form.</p>
<p>*I am aware your advice is of a non-professional nature.</p>
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		<title>By: FastLife</title>
		<link>http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>FastLife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 15:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/#comment-18</guid>
		<description>Hi Anne Marie, yes I get you.  While I am neither an accountant or corporate lawyer, and thus it would be well worth speaking to one for more specific advice, from what I gather the income of the company you register would need to be kept completely separate from any income you may receive from the company for your own use.  If you form a company it is a completely independent legal entity, thus you can&#039;t just help your self to its money, even if you were the one who registered the company.  Thus there is a very clear distinction about how income from the company is taxed.  Any and all revenue received by your company belongs to your company and thus is taxed at the corporate tax rate which in Australia is currently a flat rate of 30% (http://www.business.nsw.gov.au/aboutnsw/climate/A14_corp_tax_rates.htm).  

If your company pays for the expenses incurred by your husband in performing company business then this is a legitimate business expense incurred by the company and will be shown on your company&#039;s tax return.

Only if the company pays your husband a wage for services rendered, or you receive a directors fee or some other form of payment from the company will this need to be reported in your personal tax return.

It is important to keep in mind that any income received by your company minus expenses is your company&#039;s profit, not yours.  You control the company, but you your selves are not the company.

People use the corporate structure for this very thing.  As an individual you earn an income, the government taxes it you you get what is left.  If you form a company, your company earns an income, can use what ever it needs to to perform its business, then gets taxed on what ever is left at the corporate tax rate.

The benefit for the owners/directors of the company is they can choose how much they get paid by the company, and therefore what their individual tax liability is.  Without a company, a person just earns whatever their job gives them and has to be taxed at the individual rate for all of it.

I hope that makes some sense.  It is getting near to tax time, it would be worth speaking to your accountant for specifics on tax rates and how to maximise your income by legitimately proportioning your incomes between you.  For example, an individual can earn up to $30,000 and pay only $0.15 in tax for the portion of the amount between $6,001 and $30,000.  Similarly, if you earn more than $30,000 only the portion of your wage between $30,001 and $75,000 is taxed at $0.30 in the dollar.  Thus you would have to be earning more than $75,000 for it to be worth while setting up a company to help minimise your tax purely on the grounds of income tax.  A company doesn&#039;t get a tax free threshold like an individual does, so a company earning $75,000 pays more in tax than an individual does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Anne Marie, yes I get you.  While I am neither an accountant or corporate lawyer, and thus it would be well worth speaking to one for more specific advice, from what I gather the income of the company you register would need to be kept completely separate from any income you may receive from the company for your own use.  If you form a company it is a completely independent legal entity, thus you can&#8217;t just help your self to its money, even if you were the one who registered the company.  Thus there is a very clear distinction about how income from the company is taxed.  Any and all revenue received by your company belongs to your company and thus is taxed at the corporate tax rate which in Australia is currently a flat rate of 30% (<a href="http://www.business.nsw.gov.au/aboutnsw/climate/A14_corp_tax_rates.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.business.nsw.gov.au/aboutnsw/climate/A14_corp_tax_rates.htm</a>).  </p>
<p>If your company pays for the expenses incurred by your husband in performing company business then this is a legitimate business expense incurred by the company and will be shown on your company&#8217;s tax return.</p>
<p>Only if the company pays your husband a wage for services rendered, or you receive a directors fee or some other form of payment from the company will this need to be reported in your personal tax return.</p>
<p>It is important to keep in mind that any income received by your company minus expenses is your company&#8217;s profit, not yours.  You control the company, but you your selves are not the company.</p>
<p>People use the corporate structure for this very thing.  As an individual you earn an income, the government taxes it you you get what is left.  If you form a company, your company earns an income, can use what ever it needs to to perform its business, then gets taxed on what ever is left at the corporate tax rate.</p>
<p>The benefit for the owners/directors of the company is they can choose how much they get paid by the company, and therefore what their individual tax liability is.  Without a company, a person just earns whatever their job gives them and has to be taxed at the individual rate for all of it.</p>
<p>I hope that makes some sense.  It is getting near to tax time, it would be worth speaking to your accountant for specifics on tax rates and how to maximise your income by legitimately proportioning your incomes between you.  For example, an individual can earn up to $30,000 and pay only $0.15 in tax for the portion of the amount between $6,001 and $30,000.  Similarly, if you earn more than $30,000 only the portion of your wage between $30,001 and $75,000 is taxed at $0.30 in the dollar.  Thus you would have to be earning more than $75,000 for it to be worth while setting up a company to help minimise your tax purely on the grounds of income tax.  A company doesn&#8217;t get a tax free threshold like an individual does, so a company earning $75,000 pays more in tax than an individual does.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Marie Curle</title>
		<link>http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Marie Curle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 06:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/#comment-17</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the insight into the ASIC site, I am contemplating starting a company (upgrading from a Family Partnership) but the one thing I am a bit confused about is Tax. My husband will be the director and operator, looks like I will be the secretary but the question I have is, come tax time, how do we determine my husbands &amp; my &quot;income&quot; for personal tax returns, would this just be based on the profit from the company. He won&#039;t be paid a wage as such it will still continue that he gets paid by the company he does work for, pays out money (petrol, tolls etc - he is a courier) from this income and then whatever is left over I assume is profit, which would be classed as his (and my) income ??? Hope this makes sense, I want clarification before I go further so if someone has some advice that would be good</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the insight into the ASIC site, I am contemplating starting a company (upgrading from a Family Partnership) but the one thing I am a bit confused about is Tax. My husband will be the director and operator, looks like I will be the secretary but the question I have is, come tax time, how do we determine my husbands &amp; my &#8220;income&#8221; for personal tax returns, would this just be based on the profit from the company. He won&#8217;t be paid a wage as such it will still continue that he gets paid by the company he does work for, pays out money (petrol, tolls etc &#8211; he is a courier) from this income and then whatever is left over I assume is profit, which would be classed as his (and my) income ??? Hope this makes sense, I want clarification before I go further so if someone has some advice that would be good</p>
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		<title>By: FastLife</title>
		<link>http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/comment-page-1/#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>FastLife</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 07:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Thanks Brad.  Yes I was lucky on the afternoon I went in.  There was no one ahead of me so I was called straight up.  Gave them my form, handed over my dollars and they gave me my certificate of registration.  All done in about 10 minutes.  Going in in person was definitely much easier than posting the application!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Brad.  Yes I was lucky on the afternoon I went in.  There was no one ahead of me so I was called straight up.  Gave them my form, handed over my dollars and they gave me my certificate of registration.  All done in about 10 minutes.  Going in in person was definitely much easier than posting the application!</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 07:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.haydnallbutt.com.au/2008/03/28/7/#comment-13</guid>
		<description>Nice summary of the ASIC site! 
I&#039;m currently in the process of registering my second Company and paying CASH at the ASIC office is definitely the quickest way.  (I say quick, however I recall a 1.5 hour wait in the line with 3 other people! At least it avoids dealing with Australia Post delays...)
Just remember to send your annual tax statements to the ATO (even if its a Nil balance) thus avoiding further dealings with government departments!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice summary of the ASIC site!<br />
I&#8217;m currently in the process of registering my second Company and paying CASH at the ASIC office is definitely the quickest way.  (I say quick, however I recall a 1.5 hour wait in the line with 3 other people! At least it avoids dealing with Australia Post delays&#8230;)<br />
Just remember to send your annual tax statements to the ATO (even if its a Nil balance) thus avoiding further dealings with government departments!</p>
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